September 19, 2015 at 4:57 am #2071
Also a camera system or something like that would be awesome! It’s a great and scary game so far 😀
September 19, 2015 at 8:18 am #2073
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by 16wongmc1.
Haha yes we thought a security room could be a fun nod to the Five Nights games. Wouldn’t want to make it a huge part of the game because it’d literally be ripping off the same mechanic.September 19, 2015 at 8:34 am #2074
I think the game needs a scaring moment with sound or flashing lights like slenderman and building up of tension in one moment cause chilled chaos said it was more boring and annoying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXMI2WE2YdE&index=3&list=UUO5KTtyzcJK2R4VUhsCVYUQSeptember 19, 2015 at 3:26 pm #2077
Yeah we saw that video. It was disappointing as the build he played seemed to have a bug where he couldn’t die. Not been able to reproduce it! The death sequence needs a lot of work and is the worst bit of the demo currently IMO.September 20, 2015 at 8:28 am #2080
So, the treasure trove of innovative horror game mechanics that was ‘Condemned’ franchise gradually gains continuation. That’s great.
PLayed through the Pre-alpha, so far so good.
My only criticism is the player death part. It just ruins the whole spookiness, imo. It happens WAY too quick. I’d say you have to come up with something weirder and more sinister.
The very origin of the whole Mannequin Dread (heheh), the ‘Condemned’ game, utilized a lot of smart cinematic effects to amplify the dread. And don’t forget, you could also sometimes FIGHT them.
With that said, kudos to the devs, great game in the making, I’m definitely going to be buying it when it’s released.September 20, 2015 at 8:32 am #2081
Thanks for playing! Yeah I understand the death sequence needs work. We’re still unsure as to how we’re going to do it. It’s tricky to make a solution that works well in VR as well as standard. We’re working on it!
Thanks for the feedback and stay tunedSeptember 20, 2015 at 9:50 am #2083
If I may suggest my humble 5c on the death sequence, one option would be to gradually get the player surrounded by mannequins, them encroaching more and more from many sides, eventually blocking every way out. Then, (and this is where it absolutely needs to get one step extra insane) I would offer the player a choice, either to stand surrounded by mannequins (just listening to dark ambient and taking in the psychedelic experience) OR – shoot themselves, terminating the game. My point is, the death sequence should be also some off-putting, horror-inducing affair which is also PLAYER’s choice, not the game’s.
Dunno if that made any sense to you, but I hope I got my message through. )
Just make it weird to the max. Make the players regret the moment they even dared launch the goddamned thing, cuz from now on it owns their dreams. Know what I mean? )) Next thing you know, you’ll be starting a cult movement.
September 20, 2015 at 11:49 am #2085
- This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by verbaloid.
Wow that sounds pretty horrific! It’s an awesome idea but we’re going for a bit more tongue-in-cheek horror (kinda deliberately cheesy) so the suicide option is probably a little too gruesome. Great idea for a mechanic though and somebody should totally make a game like that!
Also we’re trying to make a big deal out of the fact that our jump scares are very organic and in part generated by which path the player takes. For that reason we don’t want to physically move mannequins to the player when they die as part of a canned sequence if we can help it. We ARE currently working on an enemy type that operates as a pack, informing other pack members of your location if they spot you. Once we’ve got that working we should have a those kind of situations (think of the “clever girl” bit in Jurassic Park) occurring more naturally
Thinking about it, if the player WAS surrounded with no means of escape by 3 or 4 of these things the only option they’d have would be to slowly close their eyes and accept their fate. That could be really cool and would essentially achieve what you proposed above. Hmmm. Great post!September 20, 2015 at 1:10 pm #2086
Hahah, by ‘player shooting themselves’ I meant the game protagonist, of course, not the player!))
btw, the ‘surrendered’ player can restart the game and and see ‘himself’ standing\lying as another mannequin (broken).
If I may indulge in a little more speculation while salivating about your game mechanics (considering what you said above).
First off, ‘tongue-in-cheek’ horror is a compromise, imho. If you look at horror games that really did succeed, you’ll notice that they didn’t go that way, didn’t dilute it with humor or make it softer ‘to appeal to wider audience’. They appealed to THEIR audience. They didn’t listen to the people saying ‘ooh, no, that’ prolly too scary’. Remember, the whole genre was nearly killed by industry managers who thought ‘hmm, that probably is a bit too scary for our target audience, let’s make it more tongue-in-cheek’. And then saw the whole thing fail. Please don’t make that mistake.
Imagine if Red Barrels got hooked with some publisher and asked them, ‘Okay, we’ve got this blood-drenched asylum with insane sexually challenged freak stabbing our protagonist in the crotch, whereas the inmates have their genitals freely hanging. You think its okay for an AAA title?’ You can imagine the odds that publisher would say ‘Okay, good to go!’ Pretty close to none. That’s why Red Barrels shy away from such publishers and eventually they won, by creating a very off-putting, fairly disgusting, but very successful game. Because they din’t do compromises.
We played your pre-alpha with my wife yesterday, and it made us realize how the mannequin mechanics (while being a real, genuine gameplay innovation) invoke the ‘lucid nightmare’ feel, because in a bad dream you rarely actually see something moving; the nightmare is something that’s just there, with you simply registering it being there (dropping bricks on the way from such realization)). So, for your game strength lies exactly there, in inducing that weird dream-state with the player. The whole ‘static menace’ mannequin scheme replicates how our nightmares function, when we sleep.
When you are chased by a horror in a nightmare dream, what you are afraid of is NOT actually dying. You are afraid because of NOT KNOWING what will happen if you are caught!
That’s why a mere ‘death of the player’ is simply not scary enough, in the circumstances of this game. The whole ‘being chased and killed’ model is simply too old for you, too cliche.
That’s why whichever protagonist-death-sequence you eventually opt for, it should serve the same purpose: make the player EXPERIENCE MORE WEIRDNESS. Like, make a player ‘wake up’ (respawn) after death someplace, with the world around changed visibly. Or make him wake up in a ‘temporary’ world for a while, where all mannequins are lying around (not standing), and then wake up again (this time effectively restarting a level).
So scrap ‘player death’, I’d say. Weirdness is your money in the bank, with this particular game. It’s like the slogan for your game would be: ‘YOU THOUGHT DYING WAS SCARY? WE’VE GOT SOMETHING WORSE FOR YOU’. And that is a winning ticket.
<end rant> ))
September 20, 2015 at 2:18 pm #2088
- This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by verbaloid.
Ok what I really mean is that we aren’t making a gore-fest. Going for surreal rather than grind house. Having your corpse in the form of a mannequin to show where you last died is a cool idea. Would have to be careful it didn’t block exits. Or maybe you’d let that happen and people would have to tactically die to reposition their corpse… Lots of fun ideas around that concept.
I love the idea of making it seem like a never ending nightmare. We want to go really surreal with the environments too so that idea would go really well with that.
Having the death sequence as a separate state for the player to exist in is really interesting. I agree that the standard gotcha death sequence seems too outdated for this kind of game. It’s not doom!
Perhaps a different room you have to traverse to return to the actual shop floor would work. It could be different for each area and have some kind of quirk, like a messed up control scheme, weird gravity or underwater.September 20, 2015 at 7:44 pm #2098
Do you have any ideas regarding letting the player know what exactlly killed him? (I mean duh of course it was the manikins, but where from?).
Like… When you get cought you literally get cought and can’t move and you HAVE to turn around and look at the manikin for “death” to happen. This might create some tense moments when player suddenly stops, whhile moving bacwards for example… “Did i hit the wall or am I dead already?” though might be a really really cool thing and not that hard to implement.
And after you look at manikin you can lock camera on it for a few seconds and show some “Alion Isolation like” animation of manakin grabbing you by the face or something like that (there could be multiple of them actually).
Regarding where you go after dying – IMO the closer to the “challenge room” you died in – the better. It was a little bit tedious to run up the stairs every time after the death (it happened to me a couple of times, bug maybe?). So every room should have a clear starting “spawn point” in mind where player can take a breathe after yet another death.
Leaving marks on the place you died last time sounds like a really great idea. As mentioned above it could be manakin of the character or something as cool =)
I really like your intension to keep everything psychodelic, so yeah, you probably should play out player’s death, like a death in a nightmare – feeling of swift impending doom that quickly “wakes you up” (ea. resets you to a spawn point).September 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm #2099
That sounds good and could work a bit more organically than our current system. There are problems with locking the camera in VR though. Any restriction on head movement feels horrible for the user. It’s a tricky problem when you really want someone to look somewhere. You can’t you normal camera techniques!
That respawning issue is a bug. There are checkpoints but sometimes they fail for some reason. It’s a collider issue. We want respawning to be very quick and certainly not tedious. Sorry about that!
Yeah it’d be cool if we could somehow reproduce that brief falling feeling you sometimes get when you jerk awake at night. This could actually be easier to achieve in VR but we have to think about traditional displays too. Hmm…September 20, 2015 at 8:56 pm #2100
Ah! Completely forgot about VR. Well… Maybe really really fast animations then, so player wouln’t have time to look away?September 22, 2015 at 1:53 pm #2106
I think maybe it is like a dream game with like days or stages which you can suffer no consequences (similar to superhot) when each day you wake up or something to progress the game further but one day you wake up and you are in the shop and only have one chance or something. Cause I like the idea of psychological horror and think the games within this genre is limited…
Anyways I hope this game turns out fantasticSeptember 22, 2015 at 7:53 pm #2107
Hey guys, I got so inspired by your game even in its rough shape that I went on and recorded some music sketches that I thought might stand well with the mood of the whole scary shop and mannequin chase experience. Skethes are rough, but if you like them, they can be reworked and polished in many different ways, and I’ll be more than happy to do that for you for no charge at all – that’s how excited I am about your game! )) No samples, everything hand-played in my home studio. (I mostly do voice overdubs as part of my interpreting job, but music always comes along).
Anyway, here are them little pieces of music:
Menu music 1
Menu music 2
Chase loop test
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